Spinning reel/rod rigs? How should I be set up??

[nnation]

New to the forums here but been checking them out for a little while. Looks like most of the members here mostly fly fish for the fish. I recently moved to go to school at Ferris State so I'm only about 30 mins from the PM. I usually fish the Ausable on the East side of the state during it's run of fish and have always been set up with spinning equipment. I haven't got into fly fishing yet (thinking about learning this summer) so I am wanting to stick with what I know for now. My usual rig was some weight attached to a swivel and then a 6-12ft leader off of that to fly. Now you know my situation.
Questions:
Can I use the same techniques at the PM or Big Man. with good success or do I need to change it up a little? If so, how?
What's the typical rigging people use on these rivers with spinning equipment?

I am going to go over there this weekend just to check things out and try to get a little familiar with the river so hopefully I have an idea of where to go and what to do before it really starts to get fished. How many people are on the river during the peak period? I don't care much for a crowd. Does anyone want to meet up and show me the ropes?? Thanks for any replies.
I know, long post. sorry

[nnation]

That's pretty much the same thing I have done in the past then. I wonder if it's as productive as using the ol' fly rod with sink tip though.

[rhino]

are hard to make a back cast to cast long enough on the big man. so i would try a spey rod if i was you i would start swinging streamers eggs and nymphs this is from shore not from a boat. so in other words i owen a couple fly rods and yes we are using sink tips and skagit lines that rio sell now i think ? [skagit lines] hope this helps

[speyday]

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but runiing a drift/bottom bouncing rig with a 6 to 12 foot leader on the PM would gaurantee you snagging fish. The river is 40 feet wide, narrower in most places. A bottom bouncing rig on a noodle rod is fine, but a 20-24 inch leader is all thats needed. Any longer, and that leader starts to brush across the heads of the fish, and the line and hook slide into the mouth/head from the outside. "flossing" the fish for an artificial hookup.

[rhino]

the ones i listed were for the big man hope that helps
and tight lines rhino :D :D :D

[nnation]

That's why I'm posting on here to find out how I should be tying things up. I've never been to the PM so I don't know how wide it is. Something new to me. At the Ausable where I was fishing the river was about 80ft wide. I usually used a 6ft. leader but sometimes went to 12ft. and only got a fished lined every now and then. I've only been doing it a few weekends out of the year for the last few years but now so I am not real experienced. I want to learn a lot more and make it more routine since I am only 30 mins from the river and not 2 1/2 hours. Big difference when time is a factor. I turn to you guys for advice and help. Thank you

[Vito]

I would never go over a 4 ft leader even on the largest rivers. If you're worried about leader shy fish...use flourocarbon. I would avoid a 3 way swivel too. It tends to hang up more. Use a barrel swivel. You can add weight to the tag end of the knot attached to your main line or slide another barrel swivel on to your main line and then a bead. Attach about 3" of line to the sliding swivel and add weight to that. The bead will protect the knot on the other swivel. Use just enough weight to tick the bottom. The advantage to this setup is the fish won't feel the weight when it picks up the fly or bait. Hope that makes sense.

[Steve@BBT]

First off, I agree that using too long of a leader is more apt to line fish, especially on a one fly or bait rig. Some might even say mine ar a little long at 3' to 4' on a one fly rig and 3' to each fly on a two, but if you present it properly you won't have that trouble. Anything longer than that is a "searching" leader as it's become known...

Here is a little thing I wrote a while back to explain Cuuck & Duck for fly anglers. I've removed some of the non-relevant stuff to spin fishing and modified the rest for spining gear. Hope this helps...


1st The Main Line From the Reel: I'd say to run anything from 8 to 12 lb test, depending on how light of a leader you plan on using.

2nd The Hardware: This is where a lot of folks have their own ideas, and I won't argue the point. I'll just tell you how I do it and why... At this point I slide a snap swivel up onto the main Line, typically a black #10. After that, I tie on a black #10 barrel swivel to the end of the main line using an improved clinch knot. (Many anglers will slide a bead up behind the snap to protect the knot and get better rotation out of the snap. I've done it both ways and haven't found much of a difference if you clip the knot tight.)

The reasons for the sliding swivel are many, but here are just a few. Using a snap swivel will allow you to tie off some mono and use shot or hollow lead, but it also gives you the option of using a slinky when stealth is required or your hanging up too much. Attaching the weight directly to the line or a three way creates line twist and forces the fish to actually lift the weight off the bottom of the river before the hit is felt on the rod tip. A sliding system allows the slack to be taken up without that, hits are felt much better and line twist becomes minimal...

3rd Leader to fly: I use the improved cinch knot almost exclusively for all connections here. The exception is when I'm fishing a pattern like a Hex Nymph; here I use a Duncan Loop to give the fly more life like action. On a two fly rig (I often still use this in pools) I go about 3' to each fly, with one I go about 4'. I firmly believe that one fly is preferable on gravel unless you are very accomplished...

Presentation to the fish:

1st Gravel: I'll start with that, as that's where I'm seeing the majority of anglers these days. Most gravel beds are shallow and should be fished as follows, but there are some much deeper redds that will be fished as a pool or run would. The biggest mistakes include too much weight, standing too close and standing beside or even behind the redd. Think about it, if you run a weight, a fly or both directly thru the redd, your obviously going to hook some fish somehow and maybe even a couple in or on the outside of the mouth. Most, however, will be foul or lined.

The first thing to me is picking the redd, I won't even bother to fish one that I can't approach from about a 45degree above angle. Anything less and you are forced to run the fly thru the fish... Once you've picked your target and gotten into position you'll want to check your tackle. Very, very little weight is all that is often needed. Just enough to pull the rig out and barely tic the bottom as the fly is swung IN FRONT OF the fish. The cast should be made straight across stream or slightly quartered down. This will allow the current to grab your offering with out creating belly in the line and sweep it in front of the redd fly first. Once the weight has hit the water, the slack line should be lifted from its surface to avoid belly and the drift should be followed with the rod slightly elevated. Try not to lead the drift or follow it with the rod, stay right over top of the line. Allowing for some light refraction, you should be able to tell exactly where your fly is now.

Casting upstream causes the weight to catch bottom and the line to form a large belly. (Bad presentation.) When this happens you have a very hard time telling exactly where your fly is and you stand a good chance of sweeping the whole thing thru the redd and foul hooking fish. Take an angle on your cast so that you know exactly where the rig is and it repeatedly swings in front of (and not thru) the redd and fish. The fish won't spook nearly as much as they would other wise, and an aggressive fish WILL take it! The non-aggressive ones won't and you'll feel a lot better about having not cheated.

Some folks would argue that swinging the fly in front of the fish is less natural of a presentation than dead drifting it thru them and they would be correct, but be rest assured that the swing will fool plenty enough fish and as a bonus you won't have to worry about fould hooking any. I'll grant you that your going to start hooking a whole lot fewer fish than in the other method, but isn't it about quality and not quantity?

2nd Pools and Runs (I'll say pool for both): This is actually quite a bit more technical and requires a certain feel. The amount of weight used is determined by the depth, speed and location of the pool. The deeper or faster the pool, the more you may have to cast upstream or add weight. Many spots require a fly to be dropped off a steep ledge fast and more weight is required for that. The most common mistake is letting the line lay on the waters surface too long after the cast, this again creates the evil belly and forces the angler to use more weight than needed to get down. The depth of the water compounds the belly problem, and the only thing you generally accomplish is spooking fish in all directions with a few occasionally running into the line and getting lined or foul hooked.

When you approach the pool start by making a few cast with very little weight, most of the time it's all that is needed. Use your best guess as to how far up you need to throw so that the weight only hits the bottom once it's in front of or just past your position and ticks along at the speed of the current. Lob the line in where possible, you'll want extra line out for the drop. As soon as your weight hits the mark you've picked, then lift the extra line off the water immediately.

You don't want to lift so hard that you pull the rig back toward you, just enough to pick up the slack. Now your standing there with the rod held high most likely, and this is where it gets tricky. You'll want to lower the line into the water only as fast as the weight is taking it down, not faster because of the belly factor and not slower because you want the rig to drop as soon as possible without drifting back toward you. You will eventually pick up little tricks like stripping line in (in your case reeling) as you lower the rod to a more comfortable level with out pulling the rig toward you or hindering the drop. Then you can ease that slack back out as needed. (Or, open the bail, letting the line slide thru your fingers.) Those things will come with practice or even better, observation.

Now you've played around enough that you've found a good clean drift with minimal drag (belly), and your flies are way out front and being presented first. If you want to really play it safe with salmon, you can wait on the very obvious bites for a while and miss a few until a feel develops and you learn to know the subtle ones. Regardless of who you are or how long you've been at it, you're still going to foul hook a few Salmon and maybe a few Steelhead using this method. With practice, your ratio will fall well within a livable level. Resist the temptation to randomly strike when you're in the zone that you know the fish are in! Give 'em a chance to take it, switch patterns and angles and use your good sense!

Good Luck!
Steve

PS. You might allso want to try float fishing in pools...

[Vito]

Steve,

I've heard great things about Zip line. Just curious why it works better? I have used amnesia and poly shoot. I really don't like either but I rarely chuck n duck. If the Zip line fishes better I might use this technique more.