View Full Version : Sick Stuff
04-09-2006, 10:33 PM
Fished the PM this weekend and am very sad to say I was completely sick at what I saw. It was like Salmon season all over again a bunch of guys with chuck and duck rigs tight lining and ripping flies through sections of gravel with fish spawning on them. At one point my friend and I were fishing a hole 1 bend below a group of these idiots and a couple of steelhead come floating down basically dead with flies in there backs!!!! The very sad thing was it was at several launches this was happening throughout Saturday evening and Sunday morning. I just hope these people do not reproduce to contaminate the rest of the world. God I wish Nextel phones got service between Custer and Baldwin so one could call the Conservation Officer on there sorry A$$'s Oh and by the way I have no problem with chuck and duck fishing it is just the rig all these people I seen were using:cool: .......
04-10-2006, 10:43 AM
Oh and by the way I have no problem with chuck and duck fishing it is just the rig all these people I seen were using:cool: .......
Heading up this weekend and I was planning on using the chuck-n-duck method BUT what advice does anyone have to "proper" rigging ? Normally I would rig up a stonefly and an egg trailing but I don't want to be one of those 'offenders'. For the record.... I will not target gravel spawners (I'd rather catch one legal fish than 10 fouls) I've had foul hook ups on salmon(accidental) before and there is no thrill in this type of fishing that I can find. I have a shooting line on an 8wt. rod presently and this is why I was going to go with the chuck and duck method. Just curious if this is acceptable or if I should change something up so I am not perceived as an 'idiot' on the river. Any helpful advice is appreciated.
04-10-2006, 11:02 AM
Check out Steve's explanation of the C & D method. I C & D almost all the time, and have gotten much better at it since reading his Explanation, and also since taking a guide trip with Herb. One of the big things I have done that has cut down on my foul hook-ups is to shorten the length of my leader. Since I have done that I am fair hoolking many more fish. And by the way, I too stay away from the fish on the gravel. I get so much more excitement from running a good drift through some dark water and having a fish hammer my fly. Nothing quite like a screaming reel:)
04-10-2006, 12:24 PM
My reel has backing then a spool of climax zip line then depending on water clarity my leader is about 8 to 9 ft. i attach 1 or 2 split shot, depending on depth and speed of the water, up were my zip line meets my leader.
04-10-2006, 12:46 PM
Foul hook ups are going to happen, that is part of life regardless of method. C&D is more prone to them, but that doesn't mean you are a snagger. If you are ripping line through fish....geez, it does sound like salmon season.
I think that subject is pretty much beaten down.
04-10-2006, 12:58 PM
I had a chance to fish the Muskegon this spring. I was talking to a guide there about fishing redds. I have always been against fishing redds until then. His thought was if you are a catch and release guy and you handle the fish correctly you're actually helping them out. His claim was that if he pulled a fish off a redd and released the fish it would most likely drop back into deeper water and then come back later in the day or hopefully at night to take care of business thus staying away from the snaggers and whatnot. I don't know what everyone's thoughts are on that logic, but it did seem like somewhat of a good idea. I'm not saying I'm going to look for fish only on redds now, but I would feel less unhappy if I did catch one and she looked for cover afterwards. Just my thoughts....any other opinions??
04-10-2006, 02:38 PM
now is the time to use it. here is a site with it on it rhino...............
04-10-2006, 02:57 PM
As for a more propper way to fish the Chuck and Duck system is just fine it is just how you use it that matters. Guys using 6 foot leaders off there weight while fishing shallow redds waiting for the line to go in there mouth then ripping the hook into the side of there head is what really makes me mad especially when a lot of the time when they are attempting this the hook ends up in there side or back. As for fishing for spawning fish: if you are not a good enough angler that you have to fish for Steelhead while they are spawning and possibly taking away the chance for them to get to spawn so there are more Steelhead in the future then get a guide!!!!
I have a couple tips for your C n D rig. I idea is to keep most or all of your zip line out of the water. Attach 10-12 feet of 10 lb mono and then tie on a swivel. Attach about 3 feet of leader to the swivel. I would recommend nothing over 4', especially in small waters like the PM. Attach weight to a dropper line off the swivel. Another method is to slide a barrel swivel and then a bead onto the line above the swivel attached to the mono. Attach your weight to this. This keeps the fish from feeling the weight when they pick up the fly. Also allows you to use a slinky when necessary. Hope this makes sense.
I feel your pain. These are the type of people that give fly fishing a bad name. I don't like the fact that snaggers using a C n D rig and 8' leaders are associated with the sport. It's too bad because this rig can be very effective if fished properly.
04-10-2006, 05:56 PM
Yes it is sad but I also wanted to add it is not just fly fisherman I have seen do this. I see a lot of guys using drift rods doing the same thing. Bottom line there will always be people doing this as long as these fish swim in these waters......................Sad But True
04-10-2006, 08:18 PM
Well i will admit to fishing gravel when i see fish on it. And if you are going to release that fish in the right way what does it matter? If you fish holes you can just as easy snag a fish that way also. And if you fish them and dont release it properly it is gonna die anyway, before it ever gets a chance to even touch gravel. So my point is what diffrence does it make if you are an honest NON snagging fisherman??? Maybe im wrong i dont know.
04-11-2006, 09:23 AM
I don't know if it was the 'Steelheadbum' or not, but I did witness a driftboat fisherman yelling at a 13 to 15 year old kid who got stuck on a log fishing chuck and duck. The kid couldn't see poop, and I watched him fish for over an hour, but the driftboat fisherman decided he could intimidate the kid and start yelling at him about snagging. I'm sure the kid won't forget that moment on the PM.
04-11-2006, 12:02 PM
No it was not me in the drift boat "would never yell at a kid" plus do not own a drift boat. To be honest whether or not a young kid was snagging or not I would have a few words with anyone who was yelling at a kid. My guess would be the kid just really wanted to catch a fish and did not care how. Where was the kids father?
04-11-2006, 01:42 PM
I too will admit to fishing gravel if I see fish on it. What is the difference if you catch a fish from the gravel, or a hole before the fish spawn? It's all the same. Where do these fish go to and fro from? I see fish drift from gravel to holes and back and forth all the time, so I don't see that it makes a difference where you catch them. Sometimes I find it more challenging getting a spawning fish to bite, especially when they can see you just as well...personally I think some of the fun is the stalk...kind of like hunting. I agree with long leaders getting more foul hooks, but I don't fish leaders and run straight 6 or 8 lb depending on water ect. Just because I fish gravel sometimes doesn't mean I'm a snagger or if I do foul hook a fish it is completely unintentional. I just don't see any difference where you catch a fish from...they are all in the river, and choose whether or not to bite what you are presenting to them.
04-11-2006, 02:51 PM
[QUOTE=chainolaker] I will not target gravel spawners QUOTE]
I think the majority of the responders on this link all agree that they do not intend to snag a fish on a gravel bed. Though I do not 'target' gravel I will toss my line near a redd if I know that a hole is behind it with the intention of a strike from the depths below. Granted everyone will eventually snag a fish but it is very easy to tell those from the guy with a hook that looks like an anchor with a piece of yarn tied to it. Just reading through these comments makes me happy that most of the fisherman on this forum respect the water and habitat in it. Like I've seen commented on other postings before (and true in all of life) there are always a few that make the whole lot look bad. I think we all agree on this !
04-11-2006, 06:43 PM
Like I've seen commented on other postings before (and true in all of life) there are always a few that make the whole lot look bad. I think we all agree on this ! I hope you dont think that I am one of the few that gives fishing a bad name:( i hope you were more refering to snaggers!
04-11-2006, 08:05 PM
I will put it this way since I was not very clear about my opinion before I guess. I personally try not to fish to spawning fish. I will fish holes right behind spawning fish and yes I have foul hooked my share of fish "not on purpose". What I am getting at is I seen lots of guys holding there rod tips in the water and ripping there rod in a sideways downstream motion. "blatantly trying to line fish" but they were obviously missing a lot due to all the flies in many of the steelheads backs that I seen. This is what makes me sick. I personally do not fish to spawning fish but if you do and are being respectful about it as many of you have put then I have no problem. You pay your taxes and license fees just like me. The "rippers" are what really ticked me off this weekend.
04-15-2006, 12:38 AM
: Maybe some of them fellers were running looowww on flies--maybe they were just trying to snag some flies off of the fishys back so they could restock their fly box..:eek: Ya didnt think about it from that aspect I presume:rolleyes: Keep in touch and let me know when the orange goblers show up and I'll do the same:D
04-16-2006, 08:55 AM
What I am getting at is I seen lots of guys holding there rod tips in the water and ripping there rod in a sideways downstream motion. "blatantly trying to line fish"
Personally I teach folks to keep the rod tip up about forty five degrees, but I DO teach a low down stream hook set AFTER the fish has bitten. This not only drives the hook into the "scissors" of the fishes mouth, (A much better hook set.) but also keeps you from having to get your flies from up in the trees behind you if you do miss the strike! :)
I'm sure there were some guys blatantly snagging, I've been seeing it myself a little, but don't assume that everyone setting the hook in a down stream motion low to the water is doing it to snag fish, they may just have been on a trip with me. :D Seriously, you know when they bite so just don't strike until then...
04-16-2006, 08:50 PM
I completely agree with you Steve on that is a good way to set the hook. I by no means am saying everyone on the river was snagging fish "met a lot of nice people" it was just about 3 or 4 gravel beds where there were a group of guys blatantly doing it. I should of got a guided trip with you years ago "learned about the hook set at the wrong time can land your fly in the tree the hard way:) "
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